Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
LagunaSol
Apr 6, 03:26 PM
Congrats, you will be able to play with the handful of apps designed for it.
;)
But hey, haven't you heard, Honeycomb is a real tablet OS. (Whatever the heck that means.)
Google must have used that line in a PowerPoint somewhere because I see it regurgitated verbatim on every single iPad vs. Honeycomb thread.
The Google brainwashing continues. ;)
;)
But hey, haven't you heard, Honeycomb is a real tablet OS. (Whatever the heck that means.)
Google must have used that line in a PowerPoint somewhere because I see it regurgitated verbatim on every single iPad vs. Honeycomb thread.
The Google brainwashing continues. ;)
Sydde
Mar 17, 01:48 PM
Ultra FAIL fear mongering. Libertarian ≠ Anarchist. Small government ≠ no government. Limiting government with constitutional constraints ≠ destruction of government.
He's a common sense constitutional conservative, enemy of tyranny everywhere, and an unfailing defender of fundamental human liberty.
OK, I confess, "shut down" was a slight exaggeration. But as the paragon of neo-liberalism, Paul would wholly gut every little regulatory agency that provides any kind of buffer that protects people and businesses from the depredations of corporate interests, instead electing to enact policies that would protect corporations from the depredations of people. That would be the net effect of his idealism, and if you take five minutes to read the article I linked to, it will become evident that Paul's lasseiz-faire ideals have been proven to fail miserably (unless you are already loaded). Heck, we have seen parallels in the lingering devastation caused by Reagan's policies.
He's a common sense constitutional conservative, enemy of tyranny everywhere, and an unfailing defender of fundamental human liberty.
OK, I confess, "shut down" was a slight exaggeration. But as the paragon of neo-liberalism, Paul would wholly gut every little regulatory agency that provides any kind of buffer that protects people and businesses from the depredations of corporate interests, instead electing to enact policies that would protect corporations from the depredations of people. That would be the net effect of his idealism, and if you take five minutes to read the article I linked to, it will become evident that Paul's lasseiz-faire ideals have been proven to fail miserably (unless you are already loaded). Heck, we have seen parallels in the lingering devastation caused by Reagan's policies.
sjo
Aug 11, 03:34 PM
Well only about 1.25bil out of the +6 actually have cell service and I'd suspect only about 300mil in Eurpoe use cell phones (according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).
And factor in that the US, Canada and many of the other countries with CDMA service are amongst the most wealthy in the world. Those +150mil customers are nothing to sneeze at.
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.
And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
And factor in that the US, Canada and many of the other countries with CDMA service are amongst the most wealthy in the world. Those +150mil customers are nothing to sneeze at.
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.
And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
vincenz
Apr 27, 07:58 AM
A "bug" right? ;)
Sodner
Apr 8, 07:19 AM
Isn't this hypocritical since Apple has been known to do this in their retail stores too?
Apple has been holding their stock to the next day and opening early if they have any. I think thats a pretty good way to do it rather than having people check in every half hour with a "You get any yet?" This way its simple.
Perhaps BB did something completely different? Kept them for days or weeks. Who knows?!
Believe me Apple WANTS Best Buy to sell iPads. The more places the better. So they must have done something pretty stupid to have pissed off Apple enough to pull their stock.
I say good job Apple!! Beisdes I freakin hate BB.
Apple has been holding their stock to the next day and opening early if they have any. I think thats a pretty good way to do it rather than having people check in every half hour with a "You get any yet?" This way its simple.
Perhaps BB did something completely different? Kept them for days or weeks. Who knows?!
Believe me Apple WANTS Best Buy to sell iPads. The more places the better. So they must have done something pretty stupid to have pissed off Apple enough to pull their stock.
I say good job Apple!! Beisdes I freakin hate BB.
seenew
Aug 27, 03:40 AM
See Apple???
Yet another potential customer for iMac Ultra. We Want C2DE + X1900 and a 23" screen!
It has been demonstrated an iMac can take large amounts of heat. I should expect (With almost certainty) that iMac will get at least 2.4 Conroe, which should be quite a significant increase on its own, and possibly higher. 2.4 on the low end 17" model, 2.66 in 20" and the option of 2.93 or 3.2 in iMac Ultra! (Then Apple can gift me with one for coming up with such a great idea)
X1800's for the 17 and 20 inches, and X1900 for the 23".
Sounds good to me.
Extra space due to 23" could be used for the cooling of the twin fires of CPU and GPU.
Except they get pissed off if you give them ideas.
Or was that Nintendo?
Both, probably. Legalities.
Yet another potential customer for iMac Ultra. We Want C2DE + X1900 and a 23" screen!
It has been demonstrated an iMac can take large amounts of heat. I should expect (With almost certainty) that iMac will get at least 2.4 Conroe, which should be quite a significant increase on its own, and possibly higher. 2.4 on the low end 17" model, 2.66 in 20" and the option of 2.93 or 3.2 in iMac Ultra! (Then Apple can gift me with one for coming up with such a great idea)
X1800's for the 17 and 20 inches, and X1900 for the 23".
Sounds good to me.
Extra space due to 23" could be used for the cooling of the twin fires of CPU and GPU.
Except they get pissed off if you give them ideas.
Or was that Nintendo?
Both, probably. Legalities.
LagunaSol
Mar 23, 09:28 AM
It's telling that a discussion about RIM's and Samsung's tablet devices devolve into a battle over the English language and the proper positioning of the pinky finger while drinking tea.
My hunch is these "iPad Killer" devices will get similar attention from the typical consumer (Zzzz....) while the iPad continues to snowball into an iPod-like phenomenon. ;)
My hunch is these "iPad Killer" devices will get similar attention from the typical consumer (Zzzz....) while the iPad continues to snowball into an iPod-like phenomenon. ;)
smugDrew
Apr 6, 06:46 PM
People who keep waiting for the next rev will never buy a computer. The "right time to buy" is probably not until the Macbook Air has Skymont in 2015. :p
Pfft. I'm waiting for good reason. I don't want to pay a premium price for a Netbook with a TN panel and no backlit keys running a Core2Duo.
Pfft. I'm waiting for good reason. I don't want to pay a premium price for a Netbook with a TN panel and no backlit keys running a Core2Duo.
Lollypop
Aug 5, 04:25 PM
Im glad we will be getting a bit of closure on monday, while I love the rumors its been getting a bit to much, im actively avoiding all mac related sites... I dont want to be the boy that spoilt his own Xmas! :D
jmsait19
Aug 11, 03:37 PM
i just want a cell phone that works.
all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...
plus it seems that my phones ability to get reception when inside a building has gotten worse over time too. i used to get good reception inside my work, but now i don't. and its the same building.
so all in all, just give me a phone that works and functions well and i'll be happy.
all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...
plus it seems that my phones ability to get reception when inside a building has gotten worse over time too. i used to get good reception inside my work, but now i don't. and its the same building.
so all in all, just give me a phone that works and functions well and i'll be happy.
Northgrove
Mar 26, 11:16 AM
Since the release of Leopard, the subsequent releases haven't had the wow factor of before.
Just what I think anyway.
Releases? There's just been one release since Leopard. :p
Just what I think anyway.
Releases? There's just been one release since Leopard. :p
Cowinacape
Jul 23, 05:32 PM
Multimedia, I'd love to see a line up like that released, dual 2.3 here I come :D here's hoping that your predictions are close to the mark!
iJon
Apr 5, 05:19 PM
I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?
Final Cut Pro supports Blu Ray authoring but it does the bare minimum only. A DVD Studio Pro like program would be nice.
Final Cut Pro supports Blu Ray authoring but it does the bare minimum only. A DVD Studio Pro like program would be nice.
Mattie Num Nums
Apr 19, 03:05 PM
Lol if apple was a religion it would have more extremists than Islam, Judaism, and Christianity combined! :eek:
Pssstt... I think it already is a religion to many.
When someone speaks about "smartphone marketshare" he usually means world wide and not only for Botswana. But nice try. :rolleyes:
You mean when someone says Marketshare they mean that other place outside of the center of the universe America?
Pssstt... I think it already is a religion to many.
When someone speaks about "smartphone marketshare" he usually means world wide and not only for Botswana. But nice try. :rolleyes:
You mean when someone says Marketshare they mean that other place outside of the center of the universe America?
Luis Ortega
Apr 6, 02:59 PM
Really? Are sales numbers what dictates one product is better than the other?
I'm not saying the Xoom is better (I haven't used one) but a reading of the posts on this thread would suggest that sales number indicate that one product is better than the other.
In that case, Windows is obviously the best OS on the planet, by a magnitude of 10.
I'm not saying the Xoom is better (I haven't used one) but a reading of the posts on this thread would suggest that sales number indicate that one product is better than the other.
In that case, Windows is obviously the best OS on the planet, by a magnitude of 10.
Grokgod
Jul 28, 06:52 PM
Well we all know how Apple works with when things are due.
Look at the G5 laptop.
Tweak or no tweak, the return will cost money and getting a refurbished is not getting a new one.
CounterPoint: If he is just going to take it back to buy a refurbished one, why take it back.
He allready has it! Thats a roundabout way to work, isnt it?
If you take it back, you wait for the new one, why spend the money for restocking and not get the new one?
The question remains, what are you going to get with a new iMac that you dont have now?
If you were going to get a MacPro, then I would say, my god, return that iMac and get a new MacPro, if not then keep what you got and use it for the next 2 months and enjoy it,, cheers!
Look at the G5 laptop.
Tweak or no tweak, the return will cost money and getting a refurbished is not getting a new one.
CounterPoint: If he is just going to take it back to buy a refurbished one, why take it back.
He allready has it! Thats a roundabout way to work, isnt it?
If you take it back, you wait for the new one, why spend the money for restocking and not get the new one?
The question remains, what are you going to get with a new iMac that you dont have now?
If you were going to get a MacPro, then I would say, my god, return that iMac and get a new MacPro, if not then keep what you got and use it for the next 2 months and enjoy it,, cheers!
ChrisA
Jul 27, 12:18 PM
With things like this, my rule is: If you have to ask, then you can't do it :-(
How true. The processor is soldered to the logic board on the notebooks It is in a socket in the iMac. So yes iMacs will be easy to upgrade but MB and MBP will require conciderable level of skill and some very specialized equipment. There may be 3rd parties offing the upgrade some day
Why would they solder the CPU? Saves the space of a socket. Heat transfer is better, very little chance of it comming loose. Those socets add not a small amount of height to the chip
How true. The processor is soldered to the logic board on the notebooks It is in a socket in the iMac. So yes iMacs will be easy to upgrade but MB and MBP will require conciderable level of skill and some very specialized equipment. There may be 3rd parties offing the upgrade some day
Why would they solder the CPU? Saves the space of a socket. Heat transfer is better, very little chance of it comming loose. Those socets add not a small amount of height to the chip
Platform
Sep 13, 07:25 AM
WOW...I have one core....now 8 cores...:eek:
vivithemage
Apr 27, 08:40 AM
They have some good wordsmiths :D
ChickenSwartz
Jul 27, 11:49 AM
Since the WWDC is focused on developers, wouldn't it make the most sense for Apple to do all of the chip transition announcements plus the Leopard preview at WWDC...
This seems to make most sense to me. Obviously developers care about the OS. But introducing a line of "Pro" machines with the newest/best processor (maybe a new look?!?) seems intuitive at a developers conference but who knows.
I sit waiting anxiously. For me, I hope there is a new MBP with Merom by the time school starts. If they changed nothing but the processor I would be happy...it seems they have worked most of the kinks out (whine, etc.) by now.
This seems to make most sense to me. Obviously developers care about the OS. But introducing a line of "Pro" machines with the newest/best processor (maybe a new look?!?) seems intuitive at a developers conference but who knows.
I sit waiting anxiously. For me, I hope there is a new MBP with Merom by the time school starts. If they changed nothing but the processor I would be happy...it seems they have worked most of the kinks out (whine, etc.) by now.
Hellhammer
Dec 9, 10:08 AM
*snip*
Even though I sometimes get bored of your constant dissing of GT5, those are my thoughts as well. There are way too many things and all have been done pretty mediocrely.
For example the karting, there are like 6 races of that. As they added it to the game, why couldn't they just put a decent amount of those races into the game then? Seems like a waste of money and time to add such things that are barely used.
I agree 100% that there are way too many cars. Well, maybe not too many cars but too many crappy and totally useless cars. I wouldn't mind if there was 1000 great sports cars but since most of them seem to be some regular cars that start to cough when you go +100km/h, it's pretty ridiculous. Nobody wants to drive cars like that, people want speed!
Some cars from GT4 also look fairly bad (blurry texts, license plates and stuff like that) which is a shame. 6 years of waiting and they end up transferring cars from an old game to a new one.
Menus are what I expected from a Japanese game, horrible.
It's not a bad game but it could have been a lot better
Even though I sometimes get bored of your constant dissing of GT5, those are my thoughts as well. There are way too many things and all have been done pretty mediocrely.
For example the karting, there are like 6 races of that. As they added it to the game, why couldn't they just put a decent amount of those races into the game then? Seems like a waste of money and time to add such things that are barely used.
I agree 100% that there are way too many cars. Well, maybe not too many cars but too many crappy and totally useless cars. I wouldn't mind if there was 1000 great sports cars but since most of them seem to be some regular cars that start to cough when you go +100km/h, it's pretty ridiculous. Nobody wants to drive cars like that, people want speed!
Some cars from GT4 also look fairly bad (blurry texts, license plates and stuff like that) which is a shame. 6 years of waiting and they end up transferring cars from an old game to a new one.
Menus are what I expected from a Japanese game, horrible.
It's not a bad game but it could have been a lot better
suneohair
Sep 13, 06:05 PM
Sorry to burst your reality distortion field, but see my previous post. I ran a dual processor Pentium II NT setup ten years ago and Windows handled it just fine THEN -- back when Apple barely supported it with a hack to its cooperatively-multitasked OS and required specially written applications with special library support.
BTW my 2 year old Smithfield handles 4 processors fine (Dual Core Pentium Extreme with hyperthreading = 4 cores).
The only limit with Windows is they keep the low end XP home to 2 processors on the same die. There is probably an architectural limit on both OSX and XP and if it's not 8 it's 16. It's probably 8.
Didn't you get the memo, Hyperthreading was a joke.
On to this post. The current Mac Pro is not going to be upgraded. Nor will Quad be making its debut, at least at the current price points, anytime soon. It may be offered as a very expensive upgrade but thats about it looking ahead a year.
So for those who bought now, it was a good choice. When the time comes and cost is low they can take that next step and upgrade.
BTW my 2 year old Smithfield handles 4 processors fine (Dual Core Pentium Extreme with hyperthreading = 4 cores).
The only limit with Windows is they keep the low end XP home to 2 processors on the same die. There is probably an architectural limit on both OSX and XP and if it's not 8 it's 16. It's probably 8.
Didn't you get the memo, Hyperthreading was a joke.
On to this post. The current Mac Pro is not going to be upgraded. Nor will Quad be making its debut, at least at the current price points, anytime soon. It may be offered as a very expensive upgrade but thats about it looking ahead a year.
So for those who bought now, it was a good choice. When the time comes and cost is low they can take that next step and upgrade.